(04:00:08 PM) eyedeekay: Hi everyone, welcome to the October 4 2022 meeting
(04:00:08 PM) eyedeekay: 1. Hi
(04:00:18 PM) zlatinb: hi
(04:00:28 PM) zzz: hi
(04:00:51 PM) eyedeekay: 1. Hi
(04:00:51 PM) eyedeekay: 2. 1.10.0 development status
(04:00:51 PM) eyedeekay: 3. next release 2.0.0?
(04:00:51 PM) eyedeekay: 4. Publish source tarballs for bundle releases
(04:00:51 PM) eyedeekay: 5. Free stickers for translators
(04:00:51 PM) eyedeekay: 6. Windows Easy-Install Update/Out-of-Beta
(04:01:05 PM) eyedeekay: 2. 1.10.0 development status
(04:01:15 PM) eyedeekay: About 7 weeks to go
(04:01:24 PM) eyedeekay: My big priority this month has been to get the Windows Easy-Install bundle ready to go out of beta
(04:01:31 PM) eyedeekay: Lots of stuff on the forum about that, targeting stable updates, compatibility with existing/unbundled routers, and a more stable and flexible way to manage and launch browser profiles, more on all that in item 6
(04:01:38 PM) eyedeekay: Also working on a "Split Tunneling" or "Per-App VPN" tool in Android(on the roadmap).
(04:01:47 PM) eyedeekay: The utility is that it allow users to configure their browsers more easily, in a way which prevents WebRTC escapes by putting them onto an interface which corresponds to an I2P connection and not to their network provider
(04:02:05 PM) eyedeekay: zzz, zlatinb what would you like to add that you're working on
(04:02:30 PM) zzz: not a lot to report... SSU2 testing continues to go well...
(04:02:53 PM) zzz: put up proposal 161 about compressible padding, we'll be discussing it in #ls2 meetings...
(04:03:06 PM) zlatinb: Nothing specific I'm working on, just want to let everyone know that I'll be afk from 22nd Nov to 10th Dec so if the next release gets tagged on the 21st I may be able to build the mac bundles but will most likely not be able to seed the torrents
(04:03:29 PM) eyedeekay: If you send me the files I'll seed them for you
(04:03:32 PM) zzz: I have some peer selection efficiency improvements I'm going to try to get in soon, may or may not make it
(04:03:43 PM) zzz: EOT
(04:04:21 PM) eyedeekay: Thanks zzz, zlatinb, I don't want to rush anybody but we do have a long agenda today, anything else to add on 2?
(04:04:59 PM) eyedeekay: 3. next release 2.0.0?
(04:04:59 PM) eyedeekay: My vote is yes to 2.0.0
(04:05:19 PM) zzz: yeah I put it up for comments on my forum and got I think 1 yes and no no's
(04:05:36 PM) eyedeekay: I was a yes at the last meeting too I think
(04:05:46 PM) zzz: I'd like to decide today because I have a SSU2 blog post ready to go and it would be helpful to refer to the next release by number
(04:06:22 PM) zzz: yeah I didn't hear any strong opinions one way or the other last meeting which is why we pushed it a month
(04:06:34 PM) zzz: I think it's a good idea
(04:06:51 PM) zzz: so if there's no objections, let's call it 2.0.0!
(04:07:30 PM) eyedeekay: Timeout 1m for objections
(04:07:47 PM) zzz: make it 30 seconds :)
(04:07:54 PM) eyedeekay: Yeah I already burned 30
(04:08:04 PM) eyedeekay: OK there it is
(04:08:06 PM) eyedeekay: 2.0.0
(04:08:17 PM) eyedeekay: 4. Publish source tarballs for bundle releases
(04:08:31 PM) zzz: yeah this was my item
(04:08:53 PM) zzz: standard open source practice is to post source tarballs, even if we can point to a git tag
(04:09:06 PM) zzz: I understand that the Mac source doesn't change release to release?
(04:09:10 PM) zzz: but the windows source does?
(04:09:46 PM) zlatinb: well the mac bundle has evolved to enable arm64 but in general it doesn't change
(04:10:02 PM) eyedeekay: What we both do is clone a copy of the repo and check out a specific release tag, ant distclean, generate our jars, and copy them into the bundle trees
(04:10:15 PM) zzz: anyway, my recommendation is that we generate source tarballs as part of the build process and link to them on the respective download pages
(04:10:36 PM) zzz: if they don't change, then I guess they can be unversioned
(04:10:50 PM) zzz: so the windows source doesn't change release-to-release either?
(04:11:01 PM) zlatinb: I would rather just tag and then fetch the tarball from github.  I expect at least for a while the only thing changing in the mac bundle will be the changelog file
(04:11:50 PM) zzz: you all can work out the details, but the goal is to have source and instructions so anybody can build it themselves
(04:12:00 PM) eyedeekay: The i2p jars that get included don't change except to get updated, but the Windows source has changed in the launcher quite a lot since it started
(04:12:12 PM) zzz: are you two willing to do that and add it to your release processes?
(04:12:21 PM) eyedeekay: Yes absolutely
(04:12:31 PM) eyedeekay: My release scripts and daily scripts now include tarball every time
(04:12:36 PM) zzz: you don't need to include dependencies such as i2p, and probably shouldn't
(04:12:37 PM) eyedeekay: zab's too IIRC
(04:12:54 PM) zlatinb: the question is where to put the tarballs, should they be available on the site, etc.
(04:13:25 PM) zzz: somewhere on the download server with everything else, with links on the bundle pages. You two can work out the details to be consistent
(04:13:59 PM) zlatinb: well that's the thing, if we can just point to a gitlab tag then there's no need for any extraneous links
(04:14:31 PM) zzz: disagree, I think it's good open source practice to publish source tarballs
(04:14:55 PM) zlatinb: github and maybe gitlab allow tarball download off of a tag
(04:14:57 PM) eyedeekay: It's not much more effort, I'm not against it, I tag in the same script I generate tarballs in
(04:15:05 PM) zzz: here's the binary, here's the source, here's the gpg sigs, here's the build instructions
(04:15:29 PM) zzz: it's also consistent with our mainline release to have tarballs
(04:16:15 PM) zzz: sounds like zlatinb is not in agreement? should we push this off to next month?
(04:16:38 PM) zlatinb: yeah I think it's unnecessary
(04:16:57 PM) zlatinb: but don't mind doing it if that's what the decision is
(04:17:11 PM) zzz: if it never changes, you only have to do it once and you're done
(04:17:47 PM) zlatinb: it has changed very rarely historically
(04:18:03 PM) eyedeekay: Kicking it down the road for now is fine with me, zlatinb and I can work out what we're going to do or not do in the meantime
(04:18:33 PM) eyedeekay: This might be a situation where we have to be a little different because my bundle has been a little more rapidly-changing than his
(04:19:27 PM) zzz: if we don't want to decide today I'll start a forum thread to solicit more opinions
(04:20:44 PM) zlatinb: ok
(04:20:44 PM) zzz: ok = you're oppposed for now?
(04:21:02 PM) eyedeekay: Probably a good idea, and I'm pro tarballs
(04:21:31 PM) zlatinb: yeah
(04:21:31 PM) zzz: no problem, eyedeekay put it on the list for next month
(04:21:37 PM) eyedeekay: OK can do
(04:21:52 PM) eyedeekay: Anything else for 4?
(04:22:38 PM) eyedeekay: 5. Free stickers for translators
(04:22:55 PM) eyedeekay: zzz this one was also yours, take it away whenever you're ready
(04:23:16 PM) zzz: yeah, credit sarah jamie lewis on twitter
(04:23:32 PM) zzz: for her project which I've forgotten the name... cwtch?
(04:24:02 PM) eyedeekay: That's the one
(04:24:02 PM) zzz: anyway, thought it was a good idea, but we'd need a) stickers and b) people to mail them
(04:24:17 PM) zzz: both of which we used to have but are now out of both people and stickers?
(04:24:40 PM) zzz: so, do we want to do it, and should we order stickers (even if we don't)
(04:24:45 PM) zzz: EOT
(04:25:26 PM) zzz: sadie and eche|on used to be the sticker people I think
(04:25:38 PM) eyedeekay: I went through and counted mine up, I've got maybe 35 of the old ones(Toopie) and 91 left of the run I ordered in the spring, but I'd be fine with ordering more
(04:25:41 PM) zzz: anyway, comments please... yes/no/maybe?
(04:26:00 PM) eyedeekay: I can mail them within the US and Canada but the EU isn't great for me
(04:26:21 PM) zzz: we have hundreds of translators registered. only a few are probably active
(04:26:41 PM) zzz: who is the sticker-orderer-person?
(04:27:54 PM) eyedeekay: The last person to order stickers was probably me, but I did them on my own time/out of pocket so I would have them for conventions
(04:28:19 PM) zzz: who's in charge of PR?
(04:28:48 PM) zzz: who has an opinion about stickers for translators?
(04:28:48 PM) zzz: well, you could have / should have gotten reimbursed... echelon used to be the sticker guy
(04:29:54 PM) zzz: we're going to need his buyin both for the cost, and to make him the EU mail person, and to send half to you and half to him
(04:30:15 PM) zzz: since he's not around, put this on the list for next month, I'll try to get his attention
(04:30:22 PM) eyedeekay: I think that if translators request stickers we should be able to get them some stickers, but that it should be contingent on request
(04:30:59 PM) zzz: sure, we don't have anybody's address, they have to ask. but we would have to tell them to ask
(04:31:17 PM) uis is now known as Irc2PGuest33729
(04:31:48 PM) zzz: if anybody's going to CCC then you need to hop on more stickers, independent of translators
(04:32:42 PM) zzz: EOT, push it to next month, no answers today
(04:32:47 PM) eyedeekay: Ack, I do plan to go so I'll make sure I have some stickers
(04:32:47 PM) eyedeekay: So next step is start an email chain with Ech about it
(04:33:09 PM) eyedeekay: EOT from me, anything else on 5?
(04:33:50 PM) eyedeekay: 6. Windows Easy-Install Update/Out-of-Beta
(04:33:58 PM) eyedeekay: This one's mine obviously
(04:34:26 PM) eyedeekay: So 1.9.5 point release happened technically because of the reseed application context timer obviously
(04:34:45 PM) eyedeekay: But it was a convenient time to also keep an eye on how the updates performed
(04:35:54 PM) zlatinb: and how did it behave?
(04:35:55 PM) eyedeekay: It wasn't without complications, people who were using fell into 3 groups
(04:36:56 PM) eyedeekay: 1. People for whom it worked perfectly
(04:36:56 PM) eyedeekay: 2. People for whom it resulted in corrupted router.config files for un-bundled routers
(04:36:56 PM) eyedeekay: 3. People for whom it it did not update because the router.config files were from un-bundled routers
(04:37:22 PM) eyedeekay: 2 and 3 were problems, I followed up with the fix in a forum post on zzz.i2p
(04:37:43 PM) eyedeekay: I believe they are fixed now and cannot recur in the future
(04:37:57 PM) eyedeekay: Therefore I think the update process will be ready by what is now 2.0.0
(04:38:08 PM) eyedeekay: I actually think it's ready now but 7 weeks to test
(04:38:53 PM) eyedeekay: So I would like to move it out of beta in November
(04:39:09 PM) zzz: we don't have documented criteria for out-of-beta, really
(04:39:17 PM) zzz: but for me it's that the release processes are solid, things aren't getting missed
(04:39:27 PM) zzz: we're not doing point releases a week later to fix stuff
(04:39:45 PM) zzz: but you may wish to list your own feature goals
(04:40:21 PM) zzz: for example, are you two solid on reviewing the java updates every three months and jointly deciding to release or not?
(04:40:40 PM) zzz: I didn't see any on-IRC discussion. did it happen off-IRC perhaps?
(04:41:31 PM) zlatinb: the last discussion happened here, there has been no off-IRC discussion regarding jre point releases since
(04:42:21 PM) eyedeekay: Didn't we talk about it on Whereby a little after that?
(04:42:36 PM) eyedeekay: IIRC we only release in the Java cycle if there's a CVE which affects the last release?
(04:42:46 PM) zzz: just to take an example, 18.0.2.1 August 18 2022 fixes a JIT bug that crashes the JRE. Are you two both on that, or did you jointly decide it wasn't necessary?
(04:43:33 PM) zlatinb: I'm not on that I don't think
(04:43:43 PM) zlatinb: and don't remember discussing that bug; I usually look only at the CVEs
(04:44:08 PM) zlatinb: 21:43:29 zlatinb: I'm not on that I don't think
(04:44:08 PM) zlatinb: 21:43:42 zlatinb: and don't remember discussing that bug; I usually look only at the CVEs
(04:44:12 PM) zzz: back
(04:45:12 PM) eyedeekay: I am on 18.0.2.1 but because I pushed back my release to try and make sure I addressed some stability issues and by that time Java had updated
(04:45:24 PM) eyedeekay: Also my point release was built with an updated JDK
(04:45:35 PM) eyedeekay: So that's got us out-of-sync again I think
(04:45:54 PM) zzz: that's what I'm getting at about processes. If the build and release processes aren't yet stable and being reliably followed, these procucts aren't ready to graduate
(04:46:01 PM) zzz: so when you updated, to 18.0.2.1, did you tell zlatinb you were doing it and suggest he do the same?
(04:47:04 PM) eyedeekay: No I didn't, I simply let it auto-update and built with the latest version
(04:48:13 PM) eyedeekay: So... there's another process to revise on my side
(04:49:31 PM) zzz: I'd suggest you work on a solid bug-free release in november (together with whatever feature goals you have) and if that goes well put yourself on the agenda for december
(04:50:00 PM) eyedeekay: OK can do
(04:50:56 PM) zzz: or january because the release is likely to be late nov., may not have enough info by 1st week in dec.
(04:52:02 PM) eyedeekay: If there's not enough to go on by then I'll move it
(04:52:15 PM) eyedeekay: Anything else for 6?
(04:52:27 PM) zzz: a brief 6a)
(04:52:30 PM) eyedeekay: Sure
(04:52:52 PM) zzz: zlatinb, reported that the mac arm update went well, so as far as I'm concerned it's out of beta as discussed on my forum
(04:53:28 PM) zzz: zlatinb, you need to update your page to remove the beta label
(04:53:28 PM) zzz: eot
(04:53:28 PM) zlatinb: ok
(04:53:29 PM) zlatinb: will do soon
(04:54:24 PM) eyedeekay: All right that puts us at just shy of an hour, anything else for the meeting?
(04:54:26 PM) eyedeekay: timeout 1m
(04:54:41 PM) zlatinb: yes
(04:54:57 PM) zlatinb: if StormyCloud reads the logs, I encourage them to address the concerns raised on reddit
(04:56:15 PM) zlatinb: the longer that question stays unanswered the worse it looks
(04:56:18 PM) eyedeekay: agreed, they do sometimes come to reddit and it would be good to hear from them
(04:56:36 PM) zlatinb: eot
(04:56:43 PM) eyedeekay: Thanks zlatinb
(04:57:37 PM) eyedeekay: Anything else for the meeting(again)? timeout 30s this time
(04:58:21 PM) eyedeekay: Thanks everyone for coming, I'll post the logs tonight, see you around IRC and same time next month