I2P dev meeting, March 11, 2014 @ 20:00 UTC

Quick recap

  • Present:

    AK-47, eche|on, efkt, inscrut_, kytv, orion, psi, str4d, topiltzin, zzz,

IRC 完整日志

20:00:26  <zzz> 0. Hi
20:00:26  <zzz> 1. anoncoin.i2p console home page request (Meeh)
20:00:26  <zzz> 2. Git (Meeh)
20:00:26  <zzz> 3. Echelon reduced services / incorporation
20:00:26  <zzz> 0. Hi
20:00:27  <zzz> Hi
20:00:33  <zzz> Let's limit each topic to about 15 minutes
20:01:43  <eche|on> hi
20:02:02  <orion> Hi.
20:02:29  <inscrut_> hi eche|on
20:02:39  <inscrut_> o/ orion
20:02:48  <topiltzin> hi
20:04:08  <inscrut_> yo topz
20:05:15  <str4d> hey
20:05:26  <topiltzin> netsplit
20:05:54  <str4d> boo
20:05:59  <str4d> hiss
20:06:15  * inscrut_ lobs a tomato
20:08:58  <topiltzin> alright, meeting's over.  Move along now
20:09:01  <eche|on> on topics 0-2 I am rather more or less "go ahead".
20:09:12  <zzz> ok lets try this again
20:09:12  <zzz> <zzz> 0. Hi
20:09:12  <zzz> <zzz> 1. anoncoin.i2p console home page request (Meeh)
20:09:12  <zzz> <zzz> 2. Git (Meeh)
20:09:12  <zzz> <zzz> 3. Echelon reduced services / incorporation
20:09:12  <zzz> <zzz> 0. Hi
20:09:12  <zzz> <zzz> Hi
20:09:12  <zzz> <zzz> Let's limit each topic to about 15 minutes
20:09:12  <zzz> <zzz> For 2 and 3, which are large and oft-discussed topics, let's focus on where we are now and what to do next, not how we got here
20:09:12  <zzz> <zzz> I don't expect to reach any decisions on 2 or 3, but it would be nice to come up with next steps for research if necessary
20:09:12  <zzz> <zzz> Also, background on the agenda items are at the link in /topic above.
20:09:12  <zzz> <zzz> 1. anoncoin.i2p console home page request (Meeh)
20:09:12  <zzz> <zzz> Meeh are you here?
20:09:12  <zzz> <zzz> skipping 1 and 2
20:09:12  <zzz> <zzz> 3. Echelon reduced services / incorporation
20:09:12  <zzz> <zzz> eche|on, are you here?
20:09:44  <zzz> so we skipped  1 and 2 and are on 3. eche|on the floor is yours
20:10:12  <eche|on> due to a lot of private and non private issues, I reduced my services and will reduce some more
20:10:20  <eche|on> e.g. false.i2p is down
20:10:48  <eche|on> which service will be next I cannot tell currently, I will keep on being the money guy for this year at least
20:11:27  <eche|on> I just got some thoughts now tha I could not stop I2P from loosing money due to fraud and other stuff, it gets harder
20:11:54  <eche|on> also the more money, the tougher it gets, esp. with companies donation money to us, which we should spent on "useful" stuff.
20:12:17  <orion> I'd like to interject.
20:12:19  <eche|on> it is all not really clear, more a "feeling", I know, but I just want to inform you
20:13:33  <AK-47> Thanks for the time it lasted, anyway.
20:13:33  <psi> hi
20:13:33  <zzz> eche|on,  you have any specific proposals to bring to us today?
20:14:30  <zzz> two possibilities that may lessen your workload slightly - making orion "asst. treasurer - U.S. $$" and Meeh "asst. treasurer - BTC/altcoin" --- would either of those help at all?
20:14:31  <eche|on> my propopsal: think hard about getting incorporated and if not
20:14:50  <eche|on> a $ treasurer will help for $ donations, sure
20:15:00  <eche|on> and meeh for alt/btc would be fine, too
20:15:43  <inscrut_> is it possible to publicise the books?  perhaps as a dual-entry ledger?
20:15:52  <eche|on> books?
20:16:01  <eche|on> http://echelon.i2p/donations/index.html
20:16:09  <iRelay> Title: Donations (at echelon.i2p)
20:16:26  <orion> I want to make two separate proposals. The first one is thus: We should keep the money spread out in multiple currencies (dollar, euro, *coin).
20:16:39  <orion> And they should be held in different jurisdictions.
20:16:40  <eche|on> my bigger problem/fear is the amount of nearly 40k € in my hand. as this is "official" my money, for the law. not I2p.
20:17:54  <str4d> hmm. So if you independently have financial trouble, legally you would need to wipe out I2P funds.
20:18:15  <eche|on> correct
20:18:32  <eche|on> thats the problem with being not a legal entity
20:18:54  <eche|on> and thats why I do not want more than 50k € here, more or less
20:21:36  <orion> eche|on: Before considering incorporation, do you agree that the money should be held in both different currencies and jurisdictions?
20:21:43  <eche|on> I do not have big problems (personal) with more than 50k, but if there are problems, I2P will loose, which is not my intention
20:22:05  <zzz> there's some benefit in keeping a $$ account. Much of our income and expenses is in $$ and we lose lots in the round-trip conversions
20:22:13  <eche|on> orion:  a US based $ account is usefull and if someone wants it: yes
20:22:34  <orion> I will volunteer to hold USD in an account.
20:23:40  <zzz> is it managable for mutliple ppl to hold money and yet roll up the totals and transactions on the hall-of-fame page?
20:24:25  <eche|on> it is possible due to mtn/git hosting of our webpage
20:24:42  <eche|on> we would need a table/section for each currency
20:25:06  <str4d> displaying it is simple
20:25:07  <eche|on> if we want to divide ONE currency upon 2+x people, they need to interact good
20:26:58  <zzz> eche|on would remain  treasurer and responsible for keeping the totals, with assistants responsible for keeping track of their part?
20:27:00  <eche|on> about incorporation: 50k € is not worth the hassle IMHO, but there IS a risk
20:27:16  <eche|on> zzz: would be fine.
20:27:30  <zzz> incororation does very little to reduce risk
20:27:50  <eche|on> but it takes the risk off me ;-)
20:29:03  <orion> I have a proposal that doesn't involve incorporation: a trust fund
20:29:03  <str4d> doesn't prevent willful money loss, but prevents legal loss due to personal insolvency
20:29:06  <zzz> so the proposal is to make orion an assistant treasurer - U.S. --- any objections or further discussion on that?
20:29:07  <topiltzin> don't spend the bitcoins on acid
20:29:09  <str4d> I second orion's nomination
20:29:59  <zzz> ok sounds like a done deal, eche|on and orion can work out the details.
20:30:16  <eche|on> addendum to the topic list:
20:30:24  <eche|on> 4. 50BTC Bitcoin client bounty
20:30:43  <zzz> We're about at the end of our 15 minutes. Any next steps on incorporation or proposals or things to do or research re: incorporation?
20:30:53  <eche|on> 50BTC is alot of money for a plugin of I2P btc. Proposal: reduce to 10 and 40BTC into general fund
20:31:05  <zzz> ok ech you're on the list for #4
20:31:15  <orion> topiltzin: I won't. :x
20:31:29  <zzz> last call for topic 3
20:31:35  <orion> zzz: Trust fund.
20:31:52  <orion> I want to propose that as a cheap alternative to incorporation.
20:32:25  <zzz> ok, how about if you write up a proposal and post it somewhere and we can discuss at a future meeting?
20:32:41  <str4d> With e.g. What are the legal differences?
20:33:46  <zzz> declaring end of topic 3
20:33:50  <zzz> back to topic 1
20:33:52  <zzz>  1. anoncoin.i2p console home page request (Meeh)
20:34:09  <zzz> any discussions agreement or objections to anoncoin.i2p on the home page?
20:34:44  <eche|on> go ahead, add it
20:35:41  <zzz> anoncoin could be about to go big and Meeh's working on marketing it more to the I2P community
20:35:48  <zzz> last call for 1
20:36:22  <eche|on> I would be carefull about "getting big" even litecoin did not got big, its all a bit of a hype, but hey, great anoncoin is known for I2P
20:36:40  <eche|on> to bad snowden did no marketing for I2P
20:36:49  <zzz> heh.
20:37:03  <zzz> but talk to Meeh if you have any questions about his plans
20:37:06  <str4d> I couldn't view the website, but I have no obvious objections.
20:37:08  <eche|on> will do
20:37:16  <zzz> end of 1. I'll add it.
20:37:17  <zzz> 2. Git (Meeh)
20:37:30  <efkt> +1 for anoncoin
20:37:38  <orion> No objections for anoncoin.
20:37:39  <eche|on> git - no real objection, except the resume issue and a need for a howto
20:37:40  <zzz> any thoughts on git?
20:37:56  <zzz> is there a resume issue?
20:38:08  <str4d> Pros:
20:38:12  <eche|on> afaik GIT does not resume
20:38:16  <str4d> Everyone knows it
20:38:24  <orion> Wait, what is resume?
20:38:32  <orion> What is the context of this topic?
20:38:50  <zzz> http://zzz.i2p/topics/1588 <--- context
20:38:56  <iRelay> Title: zzz.i2p: Meeting Tues. Mar. 11 8 PM UTC (at zzz.i2p)
20:38:57  <topiltzin> If the connection breaks during a fetch/clone/pull/push
20:39:03  <eche|on> orion: on a big clone/pull/... tunnel breaks, does git start over from beginning or in middle of transaction?
20:40:11  <str4d> Everything supports it
20:40:12  <str4d> Can sign or approve commits with GPG keys
20:40:12  <str4d> orion: possible mive from mtn to git
20:40:12  <str4d> Cons:
20:41:09  <str4d> - Resume not supported (if a pull fails partway you have to start from beginning)
20:41:09  <str4d> - local timezone stored in commit
20:41:09  <str4d> (fix with alias git='TZ=UTC git')
20:41:41  <zzz> HH recently accepted a pull request on github i2p.i2p. If he can do that, why switch to git? Is real git better than exporting?
20:42:05  <topiltzin> real git would be anonymous as we wouldn't be using github
20:42:42  <topiltzin> there are other issues with exporting - changes since last export not visible until the next export
20:42:49  <zzz> I thought the point was to make github pulls easier
20:43:26  <zzz> if a new contributor has to run git inside i2p, did we really make it any easier for him?
20:43:58  <topiltzin> if we did what?
20:44:14  <zzz> switched to git, whatever that means
20:44:37  <topiltzin> I assume we would have in-i2p as well as clearnet git servers, much like we have them in mtn now
20:45:46  <topiltzin> and they would sync periodically just like now.  Conceptually everything stays the same, all we change is the software
20:45:53  <zzz> I guess I dont know how pull requests work so I'll stop asking questions
20:47:30  <topiltzin> pull request is like saying: "Please sync from my git repo"
20:47:56  <topiltzin> on a conceptual level there is very little difference between git and mtn.  It's surprising how similar their mechanisms are
20:47:56  <zzz> how about a straw poll -  anybody who has an opinion, type in ++, +, 0, -, or -- for strongly in favor/in favor/neutral/opposed/strongly opposed to moving to git
20:48:05  <topiltzin> ++
20:48:08  <orion> ++
20:48:17  <eche|on> 0
20:49:02  <zzz> 0
20:50:14  <zzz> any volunteers to research further and report back?
20:51:08  <topiltzin> any specifics on what to research?
20:51:28  <zzz> we have e.g. viewmtn, trac, and some mtn stuff embedded in our build scripts that would all need to be addressed. Anybody to make a list of what would be required and how much work
20:51:59  <zzz> and whether the resume issue is a serious problem or not
20:53:01  <zzz> well then, lets put it back on Meeh since it's his agenda item. We'll ask him to report back at a future meeting.
20:53:10  <zzz> anything else on 2?
20:53:12  <topiltzin> I'll take a look, although I imagine kytv would know best about the build scripts, no?
20:53:42  <zzz> the build stuff is mostly my doing
20:53:52  <zzz> end of 2)
20:53:59  <zzz> 4. 50BTC Bitcoin client bounty - echelon go
20:54:39  <eche|on> ok, the native bitcoin client still has 50 BTC leftover for the task of "integrating btc client into I2P client", aka: plugin
20:55:38  <eche|on> there is already a btc client for I2p (IMHO giv made it) and he got 68 BTC and 30€ from the bounty for the standalone client
20:56:08  <eche|on> now: 50 BTC is A LOT for making a plugin. I would like to split it, e.g. 10 BTC for plugin, 40 for general fund
20:56:28  <str4d> even 10BTC is a lot.
20:57:12  <kytv> (1BTC is a lot)
20:57:22  <kytv> (for a plugin)
20:59:04  <eche|on> I do not know, thats why I set it on topic
20:59:16  <eche|on> I do not want to be the bad guy "stealing" money from bounties
21:02:42  <zzz> no objections to splitting it
21:03:00  <eche|on> ok
21:03:09  <eche|on> will do so
21:03:22  <zzz> anybody else with thoughts on 4)
21:03:45  <kytv> just to be clear: no objections on splitting.
21:03:52  <zzz> anything else for the meeting?
21:04:23  * zzz encourages people to discuss things between meetings
21:04:41  <kytv> (big objection to 50BTC going to a plugin...i mean http://coinmill.com/BTC_EUR.html#BTC=50)
21:04:45  <iRelay> Title: Convert Bitcoins (BTC) and Euros (EUR): Currency Exchange Rate Conversion Calculator (at coinmill.com)
21:04:53  <zzz> and reminds that anybody can schedule a meeting on any topic at any time
21:05:06  * zzz *bafs* the meeting closed