I2P dev meeting, January 07, 2014 @ 20:00 UTC

Quick recap

  • Present:

    eche|on2, EinMByte, Giant, kytv, Meeh, str4d, TerraNullius, topiltzin, user, wowa, zzz

IRC 完整日志

20:02:10  <zzz> http://zzz.i2p/topics/1539
20:02:10  <zzz> 0) hi
20:02:10  <zzz> 1) jisko.i2p console home page submission http://zzz.i2p/topics/1539
20:02:10  <zzz> 2) i2pjump.i2p addition http://zzz.i2p/topics/1539
20:02:10  <zzz> 3) Host release files on i2p.no http://zzz.i2p/topics/1390
20:02:10  <zzz> 4) OpenITP audit manager http://zzz.i2p/topics/1533 post #4
20:02:11  <zzz> 5) anything else
20:02:13  <zzz> 6) baffer
20:02:19  <zzz> 0) hi
20:02:24  <zzz> hi
20:02:40  <zzz> 1) jisko.i2p console home page submission http://zzz.i2p/topics/1539
20:02:46  <zzz> Is the jisko op here?
20:03:35  <zzz> any comments on the jisko submission?
20:03:44  <topiltzin> +1
20:03:54  <eche|on2> add it.
20:04:28  <zzz> any objections?
20:07:05  <str4d> hi
20:07:11  <str4d> No objections here
20:07:13  <zzz> great, even jisko's competitor does not object...
20:07:13  <str4d> It's a good alternative to id3nt (which I need to spend some time on sometime)
20:07:13  <str4d> Hey, the more the merrier
20:07:13  <zzz> indeed. I'll add it to mtn
20:07:13  <str4d> Then if I go down, there are alternatives
20:07:13  <zzz> 2) i2pjump.i2p addition http://zzz.i2p/topics/1539
20:07:33  <zzz> I see tuna is not here but he claims he got all the tests to pass
20:07:41  <zzz> and he posted his code
20:07:46  <zzz> any objections?
20:07:54  <zzz> or comments?
20:08:22  <eche|on2> no objections so far
20:09:17  <zzz> there's this guy emailing grothoff saying he was "inspired" by the jump code
20:10:25  <zzz> hearing no objections, I'll ask tuna to add it to mtn since he has privs
20:10:31  <zzz> 3) Host release files on i2p.no http://zzz.i2p/topics/1390
20:10:39  <zzz> Meeh, are you here?
20:11:06  <zzz> we discussed at CCC, he said he almost certainly had the bandwidth
20:11:22  <zzz> are there any reasonable alternatives?
20:11:28  <zzz> google drive seems a little tacky
20:11:30  <zzz> thoughts?
20:11:50  <eche|on2> google drive is a bit ugly, right
20:12:08  <eche|on2> but it is quite hard to block.
20:12:23  <eche|on2> I would run a download host and a copy in google drive
20:12:36  <eche|on2> or somewhere else like Mega, Sharehosts,...
20:12:56  <zzz> str4d, what's the state of the pick-your-mirror code in the website?
20:13:51  <str4d> zzz: mirrors get added in a backend file, and are used to generate the file-specific list.
20:15:16  <zzz> oh, I forgot about the 'select alternate link'
20:15:19  <str4d> Path urls can contain the version if desired (so files can be organized on the server by version)
20:15:31  <str4d> The default is set in the backend code
20:16:05  <zzz> would 'alternate download locations' be better than 'select alternate link' ?
20:16:07  <zzz> or 'view mirror list'
20:16:27  <zzz> thats really nice I forgot that we worked on that a lot
20:17:08  <str4d> 'Any mirror' pick a mirror at random from the list.
20:17:08  <Meeh> zzz: here now!
20:17:15  <zzz> any objections to Meeh being the primary download location?
20:17:23  <Meeh> i2p.nu *
20:17:25  <Meeh> or i2p2.no
20:17:39  <zzz> oh it's not i2p.no?
20:17:40  <eche|on2> currently not, as long as it is not the only one
20:17:48  <Meeh> no sorry, I got i2p.nu, and i2p2.no
20:18:11  <Meeh> add "facebook" as a point on the meeting for me, got some nice news
20:18:41  <zzz> ok FB will be 5)
20:19:01  <eche|on2> the bad word...
20:19:12  <eche|on2> I just need to cough... *sorry*
20:20:03  <zzz> looks like you are already in the mirror list as download.i2p2.no, is that working?
20:20:07  <zzz> if you want to add i2p.nu also, fine, more the merrier, as long as you are around at update time, or somebody else has the password
20:20:41  <zzz> you can work with str4d on the urls?
20:21:19  <Meeh> yepp
20:21:34  <zzz> any other comments?
20:22:02  <Meeh> I need to check where download.i2p2.no points, might need to change it to another host, need to check I/O. and I can provide more urls if needed. other than that; no :)
20:22:38  <zzz> ok you have a couple weeks before the next release but better sooner than later to get everything right
20:22:48  <str4d> No comments from me
20:22:50  <Meeh> I got the domains, I say we can use it as you guys wish, meaning, just give me instructions on how you want it :P
20:23:14  <kytv> +1 for everything so far (and I'll be happy to continue to handle the uploading of the download files)
20:23:18  <DarkestMatter> I'm tinkering with Makefile.gcj, and I've ran into a snag brought on by my relative naivety of java & gcj. I'm getting a java.lang.NullPointerException brought on by missing jar.so's like ant-1.8.2.jar.so, which exist in a dir outside of $JAVA_HOME, and I'm guessing that that's the problem
20:23:26  <zzz> you and str4d can work the details if needed
20:23:42  <zzz> DarkestMatter, we are in the middle of a meeting if you would please wait about half an hour
20:23:45  <DarkestMatter> Where would I need to symlink the ACTUAL dir into under JAVA_HOME for the build process to find them?
20:24:06  <zzz> next on the agenda:
20:24:06  <zzz> 4) OpenITP audit manager http://zzz.i2p/topics/1533 post #4
20:24:29  <zzz> background: OpenITP is about to open up their submission process
20:24:38  <zzz> we need somebody in charge
20:24:56  <zzz> They said we should apply even if we aren't ready
20:24:59  <zzz> which we arent
20:25:28  <zzz> I've posted a 3-phase process in the post above
20:25:45  <zzz> where we submit, then get ready, then really submit and manage the audit
20:26:05  <zzz> at CCC we agreed fixing up the threat model is the most important
20:26:31  <zzz> Comments? Does anybody want to be in charge?
20:28:10  <str4d> The general plan looks sound.
20:29:48  <zzz> Suspecting that we would not have any volunteers, I discussed it with Brandon WIley, asking if we could pay him to do it. (He is currently consulting for zooko, whose company does audits). Thoughts?
20:30:05  <topiltzin> how much?
20:31:03  <str4d> I am happy to contribute to the audit, but will likely not have the time to manage it myself.
20:32:26  <zzz> I assume several thousand dollars at least
20:32:26  <zzz> much higher if we actually get audited although that probably wouldn't be until 2015
20:32:29  <topiltzin> it's probably better for an external party to do it even if it costs a few k
20:32:29  <str4d> If we pay him, we want to ensure that it is useful.
20:32:53  <user> that would incluse exactly what?
20:32:54  <topiltzin> if he's doing this for a living he is (most probably) going to do a better job than anyone of us
20:33:49  <user> ++1 external, and ++1 if it helps getting a better standing, review-wise
20:34:06  <zzz> I would want him to actually help us fix stuff, not just be a traditional "consultant" or preauditor who just points out problems
20:34:27  <zzz> Brandon is a busy guy but also a guy currently looking for money
20:34:56  <user> and would he help you fix?
20:34:58  <zzz> If you havent' seen it: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/brandonwiley/operator-a-news-reader-that-circumvents-internet-c
20:35:52  <zzz> I asked him to look at our openitp audit page on trac
20:36:07  <zzz> http://trac.i2p2.i2p/wiki/OpenITPReview/Criteria
20:36:19  <zzz> and await openitp's announcement and submission process details
20:36:26  <str4d> I2P has never (to my knowledge) had a proper security expert. I think paying for one to get the groundwork for this right is a good idea (and probably long overdue).
20:36:27  <user> my opnion as an outsieder / user only, is that a few thousand $ should be ok, as long as it's <10k and not just some makeup, but really thorough
20:36:42  <zzz> until that's published it's not worth getting into negotiations with him
20:36:53  <zzz> but Eleanor said any day...
20:37:51  <zzz> eche|on, what's our balance? ~$500K?
20:38:00  <wowa> If you want that I change  topic of http://zzz.i2p/topics/1546?
20:38:31  <zzz> wowa, we are in the middle of a meeting, please wait until we are done, thx
20:38:36  <eche|on2> zzz: roughly 500 BTC and 50k €
20:39:37  <zzz> sounds like people are positive about the idea. Sadly even if we hire him to be in charge, we need to find somebody to be in charge of him...
20:39:40  <EinMByte> Moin
20:42:42  <zzz> I don't think there's anything more to do until the OpenITP announcement, then we can ask if Brandon is interested, if so we will have to talk about again
20:42:49  <zzz> any other comments on 4)
20:42:49  <EinMByte> Did I miss the meeting?
20:42:49  <str4d> EinMByte: in progress
20:42:49  <user> Ein: Just the beginning
20:42:49  <eche|on2> ok, 493 BTC and 48k euro
20:42:49  <EinMByte> oh, okay
20:42:49  <zzz> last call on 4)
20:42:49  <str4d> No comments at this time.
20:42:49  <str4d> Other than, planning should start on the wiki
20:42:49  <zzz> str4d, let's discuss in NYC too
20:42:49  <str4d> zzz: yes.
20:42:49  <zzz> 5) facebook Meeh go
20:42:49  * str4d will move the 3-step plan to /wiki/OpenITPReview/Plan
20:42:49  <Meeh> ok
20:42:49  <Meeh> As I said to zzz on CCC, I now got control over the https://www.facebook.com/I2P page
20:42:49  <EinMByte> Good thing for publicity, I suppose
20:42:49  <topiltzin> way cool :)
20:42:49  <EinMByte> I personally avoid the thing, but obviously most people have facebook
20:42:49  <Meeh> and I used ~10$ and 15min of my time in between my dayjob, and likes rised from 150 to 300
20:42:49  <eche|on2> so far good, but I keep outof facebook
20:42:50  <Meeh> this was in less than 10 hours
20:42:56  <EinMByte> so it's definitely a good thing to get more users
20:43:02  <Meeh> you don't need a account to see the page
20:43:22  <Meeh> however, I think we need to be public there too, to get "big", more users
20:43:22  <EinMByte> Meeh: I know, was more referring to liking and the like
20:43:37  <Meeh> but, nobody here like facebook, nor got an account :P
20:44:04  <Meeh> so, I might have something from work, that I can reuse so we can have an i2p url for some selected which can login and post to facebook, via I2P
20:44:09  <TerraNullius> Hello, about 3) would it also be possible to host releases on github?
20:44:12  <zzz> Meeh, is that it or are you asking for discussion or...?
20:44:55  <Meeh> mostly info, but I think it could be a idea to have an discussion about reaching our users via "social media"
20:44:57  <zzz> TerraNullius, we are done with 3) for now, sorry, you can wait until after the meeting to discuss further
20:45:37  <zzz> Meeh, please discuss with orion, he's our head of publicity, I assume he has some ideas
20:45:43  <EinMByte> Meeh: obviously those new users will need to understand that using "social media" isn't without risks
20:45:54  <zzz> we can also brainstorm with him in NYC and get back to you
20:46:07  <Meeh> we need more contributors, content providers, users, +++, and as we can see the "corporate" world collects a lot of users from SM
20:46:32  <Meeh> EinMByte: ofc. but someone needs to tell them ;)
20:46:39  <Meeh> that's where we comes in
20:46:41  <EinMByte> very true
20:46:47  <topiltzin> and underground I2P parties :)
20:46:47  <Giant> Who would moderate i2p<->fb? That will be spam central.
20:46:49  <zzz> you're paying people to like you?
20:46:56  <topiltzin> (until 6 am)
20:47:03  <Meeh> yes a little now just to see how much I could boost it
20:47:05  <eche|on2> zzz: yes, some folks do that
20:47:16  <Meeh> 22 friends and the rest from ads
20:47:23  <zzz> now all we need are firetrucks
20:48:11  <Meeh> Giant: read me again. "for some selected which can login" :)
20:48:16  <Meeh> selected is the keyworld
20:48:18  <Meeh> word*
20:48:24  <zzz> good job Meeh , let's all feed him some content. There's a couple pix from ccc too that you can post
20:48:25  <zzz> I have one from tuna but you'll have to crop off the people in the background
20:48:37  <zzz> anything else on 5) ?
20:48:51  <Meeh> Awsome, if someone can give me a link for it I will upload a gallery, including some from me
20:49:08  <Meeh> ye, I'll fix that
20:49:11  <zzz> ok just be sure to crop
20:49:26  <zzz> anything else for the meeting?
20:49:35  <EinMByte> yes
20:49:39  <user> why crop? are you on them in the background? ;)
20:49:46  <EinMByte> I'd like to propose a short discussion about GNS integration
20:50:16  <EinMByte> Are we still looking into that?
20:50:16  * str4d was about to mention that
20:50:27  <Meeh> user: it wasn't allowed to take pictures if not all agreed on it, and we can't find all ppl to ask if it's ok to publish
20:50:35  <str4d> GNS or others
20:50:35  <zzz> ok it could go all day so let's try 10 minutes
20:50:37  <zzz> 6) GNS EinMByte go
20:51:07  <user> Meeh: ah, ok. that makes sense
20:51:09  <str4d> EinMByte: looking into it, yes.
20:51:22  <EinMByte> Alright, so what approach are we going to take
20:51:25  <EinMByte> reimplement?
20:51:28  <str4d> No guarantees that it will happen, or be a direct integration (or even that it will be GNS).
20:51:40  <EinMByte> is there still some possibility of not having to rewrite?
20:51:46  <str4d> But what we have now is an ad-hoc "just works" mess.
20:52:16  <EinMByte> What about support from their side?
20:52:31  <Meeh> topiltzin: want to be a facebook star again? :) (wrt I2P, pictures, CCC)
20:52:34  <EinMByte> They seemed pretty "closed"...
20:53:02  <topiltzin> sure thing Meeh go for it :)
20:53:34  <zzz> spent hours and hours with Christian at CCC
20:54:19  <EinMByte> zzz: no results whatsoever from that?
20:54:30  <str4d> EinMByte: *if* we decide to use GNS as-is (and ignore the fact that by default its DHT is not anonymous), then we could hook it in for testing with ExecNamingService
20:54:33  <str4d> There's a defined API. We just write a script that can query that API, and run it from ExecNamingService.
20:54:33  <str4d> Simple. But not at all optimal.
20:54:42  <zzz> could be anything from 'they solve all our problems' to 'lets use some of it' to 'those are some good ideas' to wow, no thanks
20:55:08  <zzz> no results really. Other than we promised to look into it
20:55:37  <zzz> I think we need to understand what they are doing. Beyond that, nothing is decided
20:56:15  <zzz> atm I'm a skeptic on all things gnunet. Doesn't mean I couldn't be convinced.
20:56:31  <str4d> zzz forwarded me an interesting exchange about I2P naming, it mentioned several other techs besides GNS
20:57:39  <EinMByte> well, I suppose that (as you say zzz), there may be some problems with the ideas behind GNS
20:58:02  <EinMByte> That is: will our users be able to adapt
20:58:09  <str4d> DLV (DNSSEC Lookaside Validation), DNSCurve...
20:58:14  <str4d> There are more technologies out there than GNS
20:58:14  <str4d> I can see that many ideas in GNS have been developed from scratch, assuming nothing.
20:58:37  <topiltzin> boiling the oceans
20:58:44  <zzz> sure. It's been a long time since we discussed our naming system in the big context of the internet, the triangle, alternatives, etc, so that's a good thing
20:58:48  <EinMByte> Yes. Since we need an alternative to hosts.txt for sure, we might as well look into those alternatives
20:59:00  <str4d> Even things like how the local cache is stored encrypted, as a direct copy of the blocks obtained from the DHT
20:59:02  <zzz> but he is indeed trying to boil
20:59:37  <str4d> I ran a quick test, I can confirm that NamingServices can be distributed as plugins.
20:59:39  <zzz> we talked about a layer that hides the GNS ugliness that we would have to design and implement. However that may also hide some of the benefits.
20:59:59  <str4d> It only requires that the default NamingService is a MetaNamingService.
21:01:06  <str4d> Are there any downsides to making the install-default NamingService a MetaNamingService, and the default added NamingService to it BlockfileNamingService?
21:01:08  <zzz> let's wrap up 6), we aren't going to fix things here
21:01:08  <zzz> anything else on 6) ? anything else for the meeting?
21:01:15  <str4d> (Current default NS is BlockfileNamingService, and current default added NS to Meta is HostsTxt...)
21:01:26  <EinMByte> one more thing on 6:
21:01:30  <str4d> zzz: above proposal is I think part of 6
21:01:32  <EinMByte> str4d, you mention alternatives?
21:01:50  <EinMByte> if GNS doesn't work, we can always check out other things
21:01:54  <EinMByte> they might fit us better
21:02:25  <str4d> EinMByte: yes. I have no knowledge of these alternatives, but all ideas are worth consideration.
21:04:12  <str4d> zzz: I propose that we change to MNS in 0.9.10, there is no visible change to users, but then if people want to test a NS plugin they don't need to edit router.config
21:04:18  <zzz> ok, everybody keep working on these ideas big and little, thats how we make things better
21:04:35  <EinMByte> str4d: okay. I will try to find some time to look into them
21:04:48  <EinMByte> I suppose this closes 6?
21:04:54  <zzz> str4d, we can do it when we need to but no rush? needs more testing too. Maybe post a howto?
21:05:17  <zzz> ok you all can keep yakking but I gotta run
21:05:19  <topiltzin> I'll offer the contrarian view: our current naming system works just fine
21:05:27  <EinMByte> same here
21:05:30  <topiltzin> and has some benefits we want to keep
21:05:38  * str4d afk
21:06:06  * zzz *bafs* the meeting closed