I2P dev meeting, August 23, 2005

Quick recap

  • Present:

arcturus, ardvark, cervantes, gott, jrandom, lucky, modulus, susi23_,

전체 IRC 로그

12:01 < jrandom> 0) hi
12:01 < jrandom> 1) status
12:01 < jrandom> 2) IRC status
12:01 < jrandom> 3) susibt
12:01 < jrandom> 4) Syndie
12:01 < jrandom> 5) ???
12:01 < jrandom> 0) hi
12:01  * jrandom waves
12:01 < lucky> hi
12:02 < jrandom> weekly status notes up @ http://dev.i2p.net/pipermail/i2p/2005-August/000857.html
12:02 < lucky> hihihihi
12:02 < jrandom> hi lucky 
12:02 < jrandom> ok, jumping into 1) status
12:02 < jrandom> i think the biggest things worth mentioning wrt are in the status notes, but beyond that, anyone have anything to bring up?
12:04 < gott> What's the deal with 'Unknown' ?
12:04 < jrandom> i'm not sure whether the ssu cwin improvements will come in or will wait until 0.6.1 when we have better peer / configuration
12:04 < jrandom> gott: there are two paragraphs in the email related to that - do you have any specific questions beyond those?
12:05 < jrandom> or is there some point i could clarify?
12:05 < gott> No, I just haven't read the bloody email.
12:05 < jrandom> heh
12:05 < jrandom> well, scroll up five lines and read the bloody email ;)
12:06 < jrandom> ok, anyone else have any questions on
12:07 < jrandom> if not, moving on to 2) IRC status
12:07 < modulus> sorry guys, but need to leave. later all.
12:08 < jrandom> beyond whats in the mail, postman/cervantes/arcturus: y'all have anything you want to bring up?
12:08 < jrandom> l8r modulus
12:08 <+arcturus> on 1)?
12:08 <+arcturus> oh sorry
12:08 < gott> Hmm.
12:08 <+arcturus> 2) it is now
12:09 < gott> How much upstream bandwidth does IRC over i2p usually take at the moment ?
12:09 <+arcturus> netsplits are history
12:09 <+arcturus> gott: i coudln't say that without compromising my router's anonymity
12:09 < gott> No, no, no.
12:10 < jrandom> not sure, my router with squid.i2p/dev.i2p/cvs.i2p/www.cvs/syndiemedia.i2p plus my irc and eepproxy uses on average 10-20KBps
12:10 < gott> Does it require a commercial line ?
12:10 < jrandom> nice1 arcturus
12:10 < gott> jrandom: I mean to say, to host.
12:10 < jrandom> gott: to operate a server or a client?
12:10 < jrandom> ah
12:10 <+arcturus> gott: i couldn't say that without compromising my router's anonymity
12:10 < gott> server.
12:10  * jrandom knows not.  probably less when you have just one ircd
12:10 < gott> So are you running a modified unrealircd ?
12:11 < jrandom> say, add a factor of 1.3 to the client usage for a single server
12:11 <+arcturus> i'd like to also add that inter-server lag is steady and very very low
12:11 < gott> I assume you are, since there doesn't seem to be a VERSION command
12:11 <+arcturus> i disabled version
12:12 < gott> Are your modifications open-source ?
12:12 <+arcturus> maybe we're running unreal, maybe we aren't :)
12:12 < gott> You should put them up so others can start their own private networks.
12:12 <+arcturus> i can't tell you without compromising security
12:12 < gott> security through obscurity, sweet.
12:12 < jrandom> word arcturus.  i'm seeing something like 0-2s lag on average (at the moment, less than irssi's lag detector)
12:12 <+arcturus> no, it's only one layer of security
12:13 <+arcturus> and it only serves as a deterrent, no substitute for technical security measures
12:15 < jrandom> arcturus: how goes with vanguard?
12:15 <+arcturus> i haven't coded on it lately, other projects have been occupying me, but there's a constant, steady pressure i feel to get around to finishing it :)
12:16 < jrandom> heh coo'
12:16 <+arcturus> vanguard will be most effective against bots, the hashcash measure is a separate deal
12:16 <+arcturus> i'm concerned about hashcash now though
12:17 <+arcturus> with the latest attacks against sha-1
12:17 <+arcturus> it won't be long before there are tools available to the masses
12:17 <+arcturus> unfortunately the standard hashcash implementation is based entirely on sha-1
12:17 < susi23_> Unable to find a javac compiler; // com.sun.tools.javac.Main is not on the classpath. // Perhaps JAVA_HOME does not point to the JDK
12:18 <@cervantes> ah made it
12:18 < susi23_> any ideas about this? JAVA_HOME points definitely to the right dir, javac is in PATH and callable
12:18 <+arcturus> susi23_: we're in a meeting atm :)
12:18 < jrandom> susi23_: OOM?
12:18 < susi23_> meeting? though its 8pm?
12:18 < jrandom> (precompile your jsps rather than letting jetty/tomcat do it, its faster ;)
12:19 < jrandom> yeah we moved it susi23_ :)
12:19 < susi23_> didn't know, sorry
12:19 < jrandom> hehe np, glad you made it for the meeting, your agenda item is up next ;)
12:20  * susi23_ sits down and listens
12:20 <+arcturus> so while i don't expect immediate problems with hashcash, i think it's feasible sha-1 could be seriously compromised soon
12:21 < jrandom> arcturus: hashcash with md5 would probably be fine
12:21 < jrandom> its just a PoW
12:21 <+arcturus> if anyone knows of any hashcash implementations based on sha256 or higher please met me know
12:21 <+arcturus> well PoW is pointless if there's little P in it :)
12:21 < jrandom> the size of the hash only matters when your hashcash reaches the size of the hash
12:23 < jrandom> (but, yeah, running against a truncated sha256 or 512 or whirlpool or whatever would be neat)
12:23 <+arcturus> i guess we could go ahead with the current implementation, perhaps we can design it so that we can swap it out easily later when we need to
12:24 < jrandom> (DTSTTCPW)
12:25 <+arcturus> because we will eventually need to drop sha-1, i'm sure of it :) and if we can't be reasonably certain a token was generated properly there's no reason to even be using hashcash
12:25 < jrandom> (its only for a PoW to get a nym on irc, not to get access to fort knox ;)
12:26 <@cervantes> there's some talk on the hashcash mailing list about implementing sha256
12:26 <+arcturus> it's not for a nym, it's for entry to the server
12:26 <+arcturus> cervantes: cool i'll check that
12:27 <+arcturus> jrandom: and it's not just PoW, the hashcash is what gives us a method to uniquely identify clients on the network, akin to being able to identify by IP, so that we can ban with precision
12:28 < jrandom> certainly those are renewed over time though, right?
12:28 < jrandom> e.g. a new PoW cert every 6 months (or 6h, or whatever)
12:28 <+arcturus> if a user doen't have to do any work to get their ID, that nullifies our ability to ban them
12:29 <+arcturus> i don't know of any reason to expire them automatically, only expire them manually if they violate terms of service
12:29 <+arcturus> no need to make people do unnecessary work for new IDs
12:29 < jrandom> eh, its just a passive PoW, they can run one cycle every 6 hours to regenerate a new one
12:29 < jrandom> but perhaps DTSTTCPW
12:30 <+arcturus> any hashcash genereated must be used within 24 hours or it is invalid
12:32 <@cervantes> just to reiterate the new server irc.freshcoffee.i2p needs to be added into your i2ptunnel console
12:32 < jrandom> coo'.  ok, anything else for 2) irc2p?
12:33 <@cervantes> (http://forum.i2p/viewtopic.php?t=911
12:33 <@cervantes> )
12:33 <@cervantes> <-- done
12:34 <+arcturus> i don't have anything else to bore you all with :)
12:34 < jrandom> hehe
12:34 < jrandom> ok, 3) susibt
12:34 < ardvark> um, when I add the new server to my tunnel, do I have to restart i2p?
12:34 < jrandom> susi23_: p1ng
12:35 <@cervantes> ardvark: just the tunnel
12:35 <@cervantes> (ircproxy tunnel)
12:35 < ardvark> oh ok, I just added and saved, so that is not enuff then
12:36 < jrandom> right, unfortunately you need to stop and start that proxy
12:36 < susi23_> well
12:36 < ardvark> but i'll miss the meeting then ;)
12:37 < susi23_> susibt is a webapp (like susimail) to drop into your routers VM
12:37 < susi23_> it acts as a web frontend for i2p-bt
12:38 < susi23_> so you can manage your seeds, up- and download files etc.
12:38 < jrandom> w00t
12:39 < susi23_> the prob is, you need to start a btdownloadheadless.py for each seed... so you get lot of python processes to your many java threads :)
12:39 <+arcturus> that will be addressed in ducktorrent *cough*
12:39 < jrandom> heh
12:39  * jrandom holds breath
12:40 < susi23_> it even supports restart of seeds after router restart
12:40 <@cervantes> nice
12:40 < jrandom> wikked
12:40 < susi23_> future plans are automatic build of torrents and ui improvement
12:41 < susi23_> if you want to try it out, I recommend a separate jetty instance
12:41 < susi23_> so you don't have to fiddle with your router :)
12:41 < susi23_> download and installation instructions on http://susi.i2p
12:42 < susi23_> thats all *ping back to jr*
12:42 < jrandom> w3wt, gracias susi
12:42 < jrandom> ok, anyone have any questions & comments on that, or shall we jump on over to 4) syndie?
12:44 < jrandom> ok regarding syndi, i've posted a bunch to the list about it over the last day or two, and there'll be lots more activity
12:45 < jrandom> the main demo site for syndie is http://syndiemedia.i2p /, but of course people are encouraged to download it and install it locally
12:45 < jrandom> i dont have too much to add at the moment on that frnt. unless anyone has any questions?
12:46 < gott> Why is it called syndie ?
12:46 < gott> is it a reference to 'syndicate' ?
12:47 < jrandom> yeah, its a generic syndication frontend (+ security, authentication, and anonymity awareness)
12:48 < jrandom> ok, if there's nothing else on 4), lets jump on over to 5) ???
12:48 < jrandom> anyone have anythin i2p related to bring up for the meeting?
12:51 < jrandom> ok, if there's nothing else
12:51  * jrandom winds up
12:52  * jrandom *baf*s the meeting closed