I2P dev meeting, October 24, 2006

Quick recap

  • Present:

badger, bar, cervantes, Complication, HotTuna jrandom, tethra,

Full IRC Log

16:03 < jrandom> 0) hi
16:03 < jrandom> 1) Net status
16:03 < jrandom> 2) Syndie dev status
16:03 < jrandom> 3) ???
16:03 < jrandom> 0) hi
16:03  * jrandom waves
16:03  * Complication stumbles to somewhere within reach of keyboard (week's beginning was hell, but it's over now)
16:04 < jrandom> (hooray to hellish beginnings!)
16:04 < jrandom> weekly status notes posted up at http://dev.i2p.net/pipermail/i2p/2006-October/001315.html
16:04 <+Complication> Hello
16:05 < jrandom> while y'all read the (short) notes, lets jump to 1) Net status
16:05  * jrandom has been connected to freshcoffee for 3 days now w/out discon, and it looks like both of the irc servers have a good number of users on them
16:06 < jrandom> stats.i2p is back too, and the tunnel success rate has been doing some odd jumps, but generally in good shape too
16:06 < jrandom> (though still in the 20-30 range)
16:06 < jrandom> ((which is much better than 5-10, but much worse than 60-80))
16:07 < jrandom> ok, anyone have anything to bring up for 1) net status?
16:08 <+Complication> Similar here, but no extra-persistent connections
16:08 <+tethra> other than applause, nothing from me!
16:08 <+Complication> I just wanted to drop a little line related to NTP issues
16:09 <+Complication> Basically, on Sunday, Oct 29, some times zones will jump off dailight saving time
16:09 < jrandom> (its going to suck)
16:10 <+Complication> I personally hope it doesn't cause anyone any problems, but I'm not well versed enough in NTP to be sure
16:10 <+Complication> So, just in case the recent NTP server sanity check (added with version .26) should inconvenience someone that night...
16:11 <+Complication> ...I thought it'd be better if I mentioned the configuration key using which it can be disabled (if need should exist)
16:11 <+Complication> (so folks who read status notes would know)
16:12 <+Complication> Disabling it can be done by entering the line "router.clockOffsetSanityCheck=false" into http://localhost:7657/configadvanced.jsp
16:12 <+Complication> But as mentioned, I do hope nobody needs that
16:13 <+Complication> It will be interesting to watch and see how the network behaves that night, though, as different time zones start switching
16:13 <+Complication> I'll certainly observe, in hope that if any anomaly is seen, perhaps it can be fixed by Spring :D
16:14 < jrandom> the minute-of will probably be pretty jumpy, but should heal shortly
16:14 <+Complication> ...and that's all I had. :)
16:14 < jrandom> but, hopefully it'll work out, and if not, as you say, there's spring :)
16:14 < bar> and should things indeed b0rk, there were two possible suggestions for future improvement that surfaced in the chat the other day:
16:15 < bar> "prevent skewed routers from forming subnets by handing over control to NTP if peers < some number"
16:15 < bar> ...and "do not delete floodfill peer router infos from netdb if there are too few of them"
16:15 < jrandom> aye
16:16 <+Complication> Indeed, adjusting the required number of data points (available peer clock skews) which are required to deem peer skew measurements reliable
16:16 <+Complication> (oops, some redundancy in my last sentence)
16:17 <+Complication> ...and yes, the floodfill check. I take that no similar check exists currently?
16:18 < jrandom> right
16:18 <+Complication> Seems like some people, sometimes, either with luck or magic, may be managing to lose track of floodfill peers
16:19 < jrandom> that should certainly be remedied
16:19 < jrandom> (it hit some folks the other day, when one of 'em was null routed)
16:20 < jrandom> (if #floodfill == 0, perhaps randomly treat a few as floodfill)
16:20 <+Complication> If that's doable, possible also
16:21 <+Complication> Though, perhaps doing that in addition to keeping at least 2 (or something like that) floodfill peers would be a doubly safe bet
16:22 < jrandom> aye
16:25 < jrandom> ok, anyone have anything else for 1) net status?  or shall we move on over to 2) syndie dev status?
16:25 < badger> re irc stability: seeing much much much fewer reconnects at the server end.
16:25 < badger> you could almost call it a service :)
16:26 < jrandom> :)
16:28 < jrandom> ok, jumping on to 2) syndie dev status
16:28 < jrandom> lots of progress here, as mentioned in the status notes
16:28 < jrandom> there's also been a bunch of discussion on it here over the last few days
16:28 < jrandom> anyone have anything they want to bring up on that front?
16:30 <@cervantes> install something other than mspaint
16:30 < jrandom> heh
16:30 < jrandom> well, there's value in using *ugly* things to sketch - limits expectations
16:31 <+fox> <HotTuna> the links in the forumpost seem to be down ... some are anyway..
16:31 <@cervantes> I think that's mentioned in the posts
16:31 <+fox> <HotTuna> oh. . sorry
16:31 < jrandom> hottuna: they're mirrored @ dev.i2p.net/~jrandom/mockup/
16:31 <@cervantes> some should be mirrored further down
16:32 <+Complication> One question: so, do you think it's easier to (safely) implement limited HTML from ground up, without picking apart some web browser?
16:33  * jrandom just uploaded two more pics: dev.i2p.net/~jrandom/mockup/forum.png and blog.png (showing the discussion of the last few days regarding different ways to view a forum)
16:33 <@cervantes> most definitely easier to do that safely
16:33 <+Complication> (just being curious as to what's going in on the GUI side, having been somewhat unaware of it)
16:33 < jrandom> Complication: i've got nearly everything done for general formatting purposes already
16:33 <@cervantes> especially given the limited subset of html that syndie will support
16:34 <+Complication> Aha
16:34 < jrandom> (fonts, alignment, sizes, colors, images, links, lists (including nested), headers, paragraphs, html entities)
16:35 < jrandom> now, going in and doing divs for placement or tables requires substantially more work, but i'm not tackling that now
16:35 <+Complication> Sounds nice enough
16:36 <@cervantes> and of course the <blink> tag
16:36  * jrandom pelts cervantes with &dagger;
16:37 <@cervantes> ouch, skewered by an entity
16:37 < jrandom> we'll see though.  as it gets deployed and used, perhaps it'll be necessary to switch to a full blown html rendering engine
16:38  * jrandom wants the codebase to be as small as possible though, so there is less to debug and review for security and anonymity issues
16:39 <+Complication> Indeed, there are doubtless benefits to handling text/plain
16:40 <+Complication> (which hopefully only supports natural-language attacks ;P )
16:41 <+Complication> What are your opinions about the possibility of hashcash antispam measures? Too early to tell? Do you think they'd be easy to tack on later?
16:42 <@cervantes> well I guess using bbcode or wiki syntax would reduce the risk of markup injection in a full html engine
16:42 <@cervantes> *rendering engine
16:43 < jrandom> quite easy to tack on Complication - just a new public header (hashcalc'ed against the canonical syndie uri, verified on import, created on signing)
16:44  * Complication thought about some a few days back, but only lightly
16:44 < jrandom> the hashcash can be done at several levels too - per new channel (meta.syndie), per updated channel, or per post (perhaps even graduated against sizeof(post) or #msgs/day)
16:44 <+Complication> If one wanted to implement hashcash as proof of work, I wonder what the poster of the message would be best required to caclulate collisions against?
16:45 <+Complication> Aha, the uri... might be indeed
16:45 <+Complication> Oh, indeed
16:45 <+Complication> That's some things I didn't think about
16:48 < jrandom> cervantes: true enough
16:48 < jrandom> ok, anyone have anything else for 2) syndie dev status?
16:51 < jrandom> ok, if not, lets jump to 3) ???
16:51 < jrandom> anyone have anything else they want to bring up?
16:54 < jrandom> ok, if not...
16:54  * jrandom winds up
16:54  * jrandom *baf*s the meeting closed