I2P dev meeting, February 12, 2013 @ 20:00 UTC

Quick recap

  • Present:

    asdfsdafsdafsd, christoph3, dg, eche|on, h2ik, hottuna, inscrutus, lillith, Mathiasdm, Meeh, orion, Shinobiwan, str4d, suhr, unresolved, user, weltende, zzz

  • Next Meeting

    The next meeting is scheduled for Tuesday, February 19 @ 20:00 UTC (8:00PM)

Log IRC completo

20:00:38  <hottuna> dg, meetingtime?
20:03:06  <dg> uh.. through tor?
20:03:06  <dg> was just pulling the mtg topic ;)
20:03:06  <dg> ok, hi!
20:03:06  <dg> Today's agenda:
20:03:09  <dg> (0) - hi
20:03:15  <dg> (1) - Domain vote
20:03:18  <dg> (2) - Website transition
20:03:25  <dg> (3) - IPv6 .. I hope
20:03:28  <dg> (4) - Crypto .. I hope
20:03:43  <dg> str4d KillYourTV eche|on zzz
20:03:54  <str4d> Hi!
20:03:57  <dg> sponge meeh
20:03:57  <hottuna> Hi!
20:04:04  <dg> Hi! :-)
20:04:07  <exoshell> dg: Looks like I need to edit my .pac file and update the regex. The connect was going through Thanks! :)
20:04:25  <dg> exoshell: No problem. Better to be that problem than being censored for real, right?
20:04:34  <dg> Ok, how many people do we need to vote?
20:04:45  <exoshell> no kidding.
20:04:48  <str4d> weltende
20:04:52  <str4d> (ping)
20:05:06  <hottuna> Mathiasdm postman badger
20:05:19  <hottuna> domain vote is coming up
20:05:22  <dg> \o/
20:05:41  <dg> h2ik bpb psi
20:05:49  <dg> .. wakey wakey?
20:06:23  <dg> Everyone's sleepy
20:06:36  <dg> We could do with more than three people >.>
20:06:51  <hottuna> 3 ppl isnt enought.
20:06:58  <str4d> Nope
20:07:16  <hottuna> Could we start a zzz.i2p thread for it and have #i2p-dev topic point ppl to it.
20:07:20  <str4d> And there are two votes needed - what we would change it to, and if we are going to change it at all.
20:07:31  <hottuna> and just have people vote for one of the alternatives
20:07:38  <str4d> (Can and should be independent)
20:07:41  <dg> RN, Shinobiwan
20:07:49  <hottuna> agreed
20:08:00  <dg> might be an idea
20:08:07  <dg> I was going for $OPTIONS/"I don't want a change"
20:08:28  <hottuna> dg, makes sense to me
20:08:45  <dg> I mean.. we did post this a week ago
20:08:45  <zzz> dont even bother if weltende isnt here
20:08:48  <str4d> With two votes, even those who don't want a change can contribute an idea as to what they would change to if they had to.
20:09:22  <dg> They could anyway? We've had the topic up for a week and there's been no new suggestions.
20:09:22  <hottuna> str4d, so $OPTIONS/"I don't want a change" is not good enough?
20:09:37  <dg> "You can abstain (to say I don't want us to change) but it's preferable if you'd bring it up first so we could discuss why.. but not necessary."
20:09:40  <Shinobiwan> o/
20:10:26  <iRelay> <weltende@freenode> zzz: well.. I don't *really* care
20:10:51  <str4d> hottuna: that doesn't give the right statistics.
20:10:51  <dg> Does that mean you'll go with the majority or.. what?
20:10:55  <dg> Not caring isn't a great stance.
20:11:02  <hottuna> weltende, as long as you know that there is a vote
20:11:21  <zzz> ok, but presumably work would fall on you if we switch, so you kinda have to agree to a switch
20:11:21  <dg> We've said there's a vote, people are able to vote for - with a choice or against
20:12:11  <str4d> weltende, how much work do you see for yourself in the event of a switch?
20:12:22  <hottuna> alright, are we enough ppl around for the vote "Do you want to change the domain?" ?
20:12:29  <dg> I'm trying to think of things you can't do with a quick sed.
20:13:03  <dg> hottuna: hottuna, str4d, zzz, Shinobiwan, welt, dg
20:13:03  <dg> that's 6
20:13:03  <dg> is that enough?
20:13:10  <dg> I'm not sure.
20:13:10  <hottuna> yes?
20:13:22  * asdfsdafsdafsd runs in the room
20:13:29  <asdfsdafsdafsd> I'm here.... 7
20:13:29  <dg> :o
20:13:32  <dg> make that 7
20:13:47  <zzz> dns updates, ssl certs, transfers (if somebody else has the new domain now) .. .among others
20:13:47  <hottuna> so let's do the vote?
20:13:54  <dg> it's not lik we have ssl certs anyway
20:13:57  <dg> let's do it
20:13:57  <inscrutus> i'm just a civvie, is my opinion worth anything ?
20:14:04  <dg> yes
20:14:11  <hottuna> inscrutus, yes :)
20:14:14  <zzz> dg, yes we do have certs
20:14:21  <dg> zzz: none valid afaik
20:14:28  <hottuna> zzz, the cacert cert?
20:14:28  <dg> hottuna: say "I"? deal?
20:14:30  <inscrutus> cool :)
20:15:00  <hottuna> \me says votes "I"
20:15:03  <asdfsdafsdafsd> so, what are the alternate domain choices?
20:15:06  <zzz> dg the choice of CA is a different issue. don't confuse things by saying we dont have certs.
20:15:17  <hottuna> "I"
20:15:17  <Shinobiwan> i2p2.de ?
20:15:17  <dg> zzz: meh. same diff for the most part. for another time, anyway.
20:15:24  <dg> Those in favor of a domain change (doesn't matter what to), say I!
20:15:35  <hottuna> asdfsdafsdafsd, that is the next vote, first we decide if we want to change
20:15:42  <zzz> no, its not the same at all. It's work to be done, don't discount it.
20:15:42  * dg votes "I"
20:15:44  <iRelay> <weltende@freenode> str4d: not sure.. but not gonna do anything before 1.3
20:15:52  * hottuna votes "I"
20:15:59  <zzz> do you guys mean "aye" ?
20:16:06  <zzz> ffs
20:16:07  <dg> ...
20:16:07  <dg> yes
20:16:10  <hottuna> yes :P
20:16:13  <hottuna> damnit
20:16:13  <dg> LOL
20:16:16  * inscrutus says aye (FWIW)
20:16:16  <asdfsdafsdafsd> hottune, ah ok
20:16:19  <dg> .. aye
20:16:26  <asdfsdafsdafsd> edit.... tuna lol
20:17:20  <hottuna> 3 for  -  0 against, this far.
20:17:46  <Shinobiwan> i2p2.de ?   ?_?
20:17:49  <zzz> do we have volunteers to do all the other work required? docs, website, router console, etc?
20:17:52  <Shinobiwan> if so, aye
20:18:03  <dg> Shinobiwan: Moving from i2p2.de -> anything
20:18:19  <dg> (we'll have another vote to determine what "anything" is)
20:18:26  <Shinobiwan> yea then... definitely.
20:18:29  <hottuna> zzz, ill take responsibility if works needs to be done (that is server specific)
20:18:35  * asdfsdafsdafsd confers with his greater and lesser demons....
20:18:46  <dg> Website doesn't need anything doing.
20:18:46  <asdfsdafsdafsd> aye
20:19:01  <str4d> zzz: the work will get done, but the 301 server redirect will solve that.
20:19:01  <hottuna> 5 for  -  0 against
20:19:04  <dg> well, a redirect.
20:19:07  <dg> 4 for - 0 against.
20:19:09  <iRelay> <user@kytv> abstention here
20:19:09  <dg> oops
20:19:12  <str4d> Website, has nothing (aside from tweaking the mirror links in the footer)
20:19:31  <str4d> Ah, and aye
20:19:34  <dg> so.. no?
20:19:37  <hottuna> ok
20:19:43  <str4d> dg: abstention. Difference.
20:19:47  <eche|on> count me as a no, it is absolutly unneeded and unneeded work and confuses the users
20:20:00  <asdfsdafsdafsd> I guess this means I'll have to edit my posters....
20:20:00  <dg> str4d: No, I said something in the topic due to the previous model we were going for.
20:20:02  <iRelay> <user@kytv> my English is bad. I mean I am indifferent
20:20:12  <dg> str4d: "You can abstain (to say I don't want us to change) but it's preferable if you'd bring it up first so we could discuss why.. but not necessary."
20:20:12  <eche|on> but as I do not have to do anything, who cares
20:20:15  <dg> ah ok
20:20:18  <dg> 6 for - 1 against
20:20:21  <lillith> FWIW, my vote is no change. i like i2p2.de with the other urls pointing at it
20:20:34  <str4d> lillith: other urls?
20:20:34  <dg> 2 against.
20:21:01  <lillith> geti2p.net etc
20:21:04  <str4d> You mean the mirrors? They aren't pointing at it (that would be a 301 redirect) - at present they are full mirrors.
20:21:19  <dg> geti2p.net is a mirror iirc.
20:21:22  <lillith> ahh okay :D
20:21:26  <dg> so.. yes or no?
20:21:45  <zzz> I'll give a contingent aye, dependent on the result of the 2nd vote. If I don't like the new one I will switch to nay.
20:21:52  <lillith> no - keep i2p2 as primary url
20:21:59  <hottuna> sponge, Mathiasdm, Meeh, RN: Domain votes?
20:22:06  <dg> 7 for - 2 against.
20:22:25  <str4d> (That's why I wanted to do the second vote first =P)
20:22:33  <dg> .. oh.
20:22:38  <dg> That makes snese.
20:22:45  <asdfsdafsdafsd> can zzz setup a poll on the dev forum?
20:22:56  <dg> don't know if polls are possible
20:22:59  <zzz> no, because if the 1st vote loses you dont need a 2nd.
20:23:13  <inscrutus> lillith: that hints at another question: keep i2p2 as a secondary domain?
20:23:20  <str4d> inscrutus: of course.
20:23:20  <inscrutus> i2p2.de*
20:23:26  <dg> That's a yes.
20:23:33  <dg> We're keeping it for SEO purposes and to stop evil.
20:23:37  <str4d> If a change goes ahead, www.i2p2.de will be 301-ed to the new one
20:24:10  <str4d> I.e. it wouldn't be a full mirror, it would redirect to the new URL (which ensures that the old SEO/linkage/etc. gets transferred to the new URL)
20:24:28  <inscrutus> Right, that makes sense
20:24:37  <eche|on> ..at some point I cannot read/hear/... this buzzwor SEO anymore,...
20:24:47  <asdfsdafsdafsd> I guess a forum vote is maybe a bad idea, because you could get people voting multiple times too
20:24:54  <zzz> my vote and any change is also contingent on weltende agreeing to do the work
20:24:54  <dg> SEO is real, lol.
20:26:05  <str4d> zzz: my sugggestion (if a domain change is agreed on) is that the site revamp be put up at the new URL, and then once tested the old one is put on redirect. So weltende would be killing two birds with a slightly larger stone.
20:26:43  <hottuna> Is the first vote over and done?
20:26:49  <iRelay> <user@kytv> don't kill innocent birds!!
20:26:49  <dg> Believe so.
20:26:59  <h2ik> hi back dg
20:26:59  <dg> So.. 7 for - 2 against.
20:27:02  <dg> oh!
20:27:02  <dg> hi!
20:27:02  <h2ik> sorry, working :-)
20:27:06  <dg> np :-)
20:27:10  <dg> got enough time to say yay or nay?
20:27:13  <asdfsdafsdafsd> I don't think anyone else is coming...
20:27:36  <asdfsdafsdafsd> we could wait until 8:30 UTC though
20:27:51  <dg> I'll wait for h2ik's answer
20:28:18  * h2ik is reading up on the domain vote
20:28:38  <dg> the vote right now is actually "Do you think we should change?" - not what to
20:29:01  <dg> if the result is yes, I will post a forum topic for voting.
20:29:04  <dg> if no..: pass
20:29:16  <h2ik> We've had the .de for a long time and I'm not opposed to it. So pass.
20:29:31  <h2ik> sorry, obstain
20:29:31  <dg> 7 for - 3 against.
20:29:34  <dg> oh
20:29:34  <h2ik> I'm ok either way
20:29:41  <dg> so not against, not for
20:29:44  <dg> ok
20:29:44  * unresolved waves
20:29:47  <h2ik> 7 - 1 - 3
20:29:50  <dg> 7 for - 2 against.
20:30:15  <dg> 7 - 2 - 3
20:30:15  * h2ik eagerly awaits the ipv6 topic :-)
20:30:19  <dg> Okay, that's done then! :D
20:30:37  <dg> str4d: Your time to shine.
20:30:47  <dg> topic = transition to new website design
20:30:50  <str4d> We can always update this vote if more people come in, but there's enough for the second vote.
20:31:08  <str4d> dg: are we not having the second vote right now? Or are we doing that in a thread?
20:31:22  <dg> str4d: I was thinking of a thread.. we can do it now if you want?
20:31:25  <dg> We have enough to do it.
20:31:35  <dg> It's not worth waiting another week IMO but I didn't want to upset anyone
20:31:54  <hottuna> Let's do it now?
20:31:57  <zzz> cant do polls on zzz.i2p. use forum.i2p if you want a poll
20:31:57  <dg> hell, let's do it
20:32:07  <asdfsdafsdafsd> we need a catchy domain name...
20:32:10  <hottuna> enumerate the options and we'll all pick one
20:32:17  <dg> The new domain candidates are:
20:32:17  <dg> - i2p.io
20:32:17  <dg> - i2p.int
20:32:17  <dg> - i2p.me
20:32:17  <dg> - geti2p.net
20:32:38  <h2ik> geti2p.net would follow suit with other FOSS projects
20:32:38  <Meeh> i2p.int was kind of fancy
20:32:41  <Meeh> or io
20:32:43  <hottuna> ** other (specify) **
20:32:51  <dg> (and make sure it's available)
20:33:05  * hottuna votes for geti2p.net (since we already have it and it's pretty good)
20:33:17  * dg votes for geti2p.net. ditto on the reasons.
20:33:23  <zzz> who owns those 4 now?
20:33:29  <asdfsdafsdafsd> i2p4.me? lol
20:33:36  <dg> N/A, N/A, N/A, hottuna. AFAIK.
20:34:00  <hottuna> i dont own geti2p.net
20:34:04  <dg> oh?
20:34:15  <hottuna> weltende/welterde owns geti2p.net
20:34:18  <dg> ah ok
20:35:03  <zzz> um, if we don't know who owns a  proposed domain, then there's no f-ing use talking about it. Unless it's available.
20:35:10  <lillith> would it be counterproductive to go for i2p-projekt.de?
20:35:10  <lillith> that's my vote if it's an option
20:35:21  <hottuna> zzz, the above ones are available
20:35:36  <hottuna> lillith, you can vote for whatever you like :)
20:35:44  <zzz> ok.
20:35:47  <asdfsdafsdafsd> i2phides.me
20:35:58  <zzz> yet another reason why we need welt's agreement.
20:36:09  <lillith> hottuna: good. just checking the point isn't to move away from a .de domain :)
20:36:17  <dg> it was for some of us ;)
20:36:24  <dg> well.. actually.. overall, it was.
20:36:31  <dg> but you can vote for whatever
20:36:36  <Shinobiwan> geti2p.net is good,  i2p.me is good too IMO
20:36:39  <Shinobiwan> if need to get new one, i2p.me
20:36:46  <str4d> dg: not overall
20:36:57  <dg> it does not have to be new
20:37:03  * zzz again raises the significant issue of moving to a US-controlled TLD
20:37:12  <iRelay> <user@kytv> and there was silence .....
20:37:13  <iRelay> <user@kytv> I don't like the .me and .io - they're very unknown here
20:37:15  <iRelay> <user@kytv> maybe cheaper, I dunno, but people here would be like "WTF is that?"
20:37:15  <dg> I don't think it's the time to.
20:37:35  <hottuna> when you've decided what ytou'd like to vote for, please denote it with a /me or something easily distinguishable
20:37:35  <dg> The vote was in +, not -
20:37:49  <asdfsdafsdafsd> I don't like the '.io'
20:37:52  <Shinobiwan> yea the country bit is important :/
20:38:11  <dg> I felt that if the $GOV wanted rid of us, they could anyway. Tor Project does fine.
20:38:17  <zzz> agreed. you arent picking 2 letters, you're picking a legal domain
20:38:19  <iRelay> <user@kytv> oh, it was the relay lagging.
20:38:19  * Mad reads silently, thinking this is quiet an important descision.
20:38:22  <dg> We have bigger problems than our domain if they want us shut down so badly.
20:38:31  <iRelay> <user@kytv> IMHO short is better than i2p-project.whatever
20:38:43  <unresolved> i2.p
20:38:46  <unresolved> :P
20:39:25  <zzz> dg, the fact that $X hasn't yet been shut down is not much of an argument. The issue is who a particular government _has_ shutdown and why, and the legal process required.
20:42:48  <asdfsdafsdafsd> that's pretty good unresolved -> i2.p
20:44:24  <inscrutus> Are we worried about the .net having censorship issues?
20:44:27  <dg> zzz: It is? I don't think the US government would come after us, but if they were to, they'd likely go after TPO at the same time, or not long after. TPO didn't see it as much of an issue and I don't either.
20:44:27  <dg> I'm not, some are.
20:44:30  <lillith> semi related to zzz's point, is there an i2p .onion? will there ever be?
20:44:33  <zzz> to handwave and say all TLDs are equivalent is naive
20:44:33  <unresolved> ty :P
20:44:33  <dg> lillith: I can get on that but AFAIK, right now, no.
20:44:33  <str4d> lillith: that IS a valid point; but that would be work for weltende
20:44:33  <str4d> (There isn't one now)
20:44:33  <lillith> also a freesite - if censorship is/may be an issue there are other ways of getting round it than just changing the url
20:44:33  <inscrutus> Well there _are_ backup domains in case geti2p.net gets shut down
20:44:33  * inscrutus votes geti2p.net
20:44:33  <inscrutus> And getting shut down would be good media coverage :D
20:44:35  <asdfsdafsdafsd> hehe
20:44:35  <zzz> again, the fact that t.p.o or anybody else hasn't yet had a problem, or your theory that they wouldn't shutdown us unless thy also shutdown $X and they'd never do that,  is irrelevant
20:44:35  <lillith> also re: people talking about tor, tor dosent allow file sharing, so they have more protection in US
20:44:35  <lillith> i2p does allow filesharing so is more likely to be a target
20:44:35  <zzz> it's the established procedures and due process or lack thereof.
20:46:13  <dg> inscrutus: mm, yeah. I doubt we'd be censored without some noise.
20:46:19  <str4d> lillith: it's not that they forbid filesharing for legal reasons, it's that they encourage people to not fileshare for technical reasons.
20:46:19  <dg> In any case, you can still use Tor for filesharing.
20:46:19  <dg> You just shouldn't.
20:46:22  <dg> So..
20:46:22  <dg> Back on topic?
20:46:22  <lillith> str4d: whatever the reason, it will almost certainly be a plus when it comes to not being shut down
20:46:33  <lillith> sorry, dg. yes
20:46:50  <dg> Right now, I believe it's geti2p.net - 2
20:46:53  * lillith wishes to officially register a vote for i2p-projekt.de
20:46:56  <dg> Shinobiwan: You never decided ;)
20:46:56  <dg> ok
20:46:59  <zzz> presumably i2p2.de etc remains a mirror for many years
20:47:02  <dg> yes
20:47:05  <Shinobiwan> I pinged out, must have missed something
20:47:19  <dg> Shinobiwan: ah. Doesn't have to be a new domain. Your vote?
20:47:57  <Shinobiwan> geti2p.net
20:48:15  <dg> that's 4 so far..
20:48:15  <Shinobiwan> if welterde say OK, or w/e needs to happen for that.
20:48:27  <zzz> .io, .me, and .int are worse than what we have now and not worthy. i2p-projekt.net is better but hyphens are terrible for many reasons, an the english spelling is problematic. that leaves only geti2p.net imho
20:48:41  <inscrutus> dg: am I counted among those 4?  I think I'm lagging
20:49:13  <asdfsdafsdafsd> I agree with zzz.... out of the 4 geti2p.net is the best
20:49:32  <Shinobiwan> yeah, haha, exactly.
20:49:55  <str4d> Of the available choices, my vote is for geti2p.net (and for http://geti2p.net/ rather than http://www.geti2p.net/ as it currently is)
20:50:06  <iRelay> Title: I2P Anonymous Network - I2P (at geti2p.net)
20:50:34  <dg> geti2p.net - 7 - hottuna, dg, inscrutus, zzz, asdfsdafsdafsd, Shinobiwan, str4d
20:50:34  <dg> i2p-projekt.de - 1 - lillith
20:51:34  <unresolved> ill go for geti2p.net
20:51:53  <Meeh> geti2p.net + meeh
20:52:55  <Meeh> In case you didn't get it , I vote for geti2p.net too
20:53:09  <dg> aye
20:53:12  <dg> geti2p.net - 9 - hottuna, dg, inscrutus, zzz, asdfsdafsdafsd, Shinobiwan, str4d, unresolved, meeh
20:53:15  <dg> i2p-projekt.de - 1 - lillith
20:53:18  <dg> Are we done?
20:53:21  <zzz> ech has a couple others too. i2pprojekt.net maybe? too bad those didnt get added to the list last week.
20:53:25  <orion> Vote?
20:53:28  <orion> What are we voting on?
20:53:32  <dg> zzz: if anybody cared to, they could have suggested it
20:53:39  <dg> orion: new project domain (official, main one used)
20:53:46  <zzz> in fact, step one, a couple of weeks ago, should have been to list all the domains we already have.
20:53:49  <orion> What are the choices?
20:54:00  <dg> orion:
20:54:00  <dg> - i2p.io
20:54:00  <dg> - i2p.int
20:54:00  <dg> - i2p.me
20:54:00  <dg> - geti2p.net
20:54:10  <iRelay> <user@kytv> re i2pprojekt.net - I have the same issue as zzz: the k instead of c
20:54:10  <dg> (or one you know of that is available!)
20:54:25  <str4d> - i2pproject.net
20:54:32  <str4d> - i2p-projekt.de
20:54:57  <str4d> (We have those two alongside geti2p.net and i2p2.de)
20:55:00  <lillith> i just think it should be a little different than the typical get[name].[com|net|org]
20:55:08  <suhr> i2p-project.org is avalible?
20:55:15  <dg> "-"s suck.
20:56:12  <iRelay> <user@kytv> I think geti2p.net and i2pproject.net are best, despite the double p
20:56:37  <iRelay> <user@kytv> but I'd go with the geti2p.net one
20:57:18  <str4d> AFK 5 mins
20:58:25  <Mathiasdm> 21:22 < hottuna> sponge, Mathiasdm, Meeh, RN: Domain votes?
20:58:28  <Mathiasdm> hm?
20:58:35  <orion> What about i2p.sg, i2p.vc, or i2p.mn?
20:58:56  <Mathiasdm> I won't vote, I haven't been active enough to contribute anything useful
20:59:07  <Meeh> ok, is there some simple webutility where we just can create a fast vote thing, and vote and be finished with it? :P
20:59:10  <hottuna> We're voting to change our official domain away from i2p2.de
20:59:17  <hottuna> every opinion is valuable Mathiasdm
20:59:24  <Mathiasdm> thanks for asking :)
20:59:42  <Mathiasdm> yes, but I'm someone with an uninformed opinion :) so I'll pass this one
20:59:45  <dg> I'm keeping note.
20:59:48  <Mathiasdm> I need to go afk again, I'm afraid
20:59:51  * Mathiasdm waves
20:59:55  <hottuna> bye
21:00:10  <dg> bye
21:00:21  <dg> be nice if we could see you again soon, Mathiasdm!
21:00:21  <Meeh> bye
21:00:24  <orion> What's the legal status on these TLDs?
21:00:57  <dg> AFK for 10 minutes or so. As str4d is gone and he's leading the next topic, feel free to talk about domains or whatever.
21:01:03  <dg> geti2p.net is winning, will likely be our decision.
21:01:28  <iRelay> <user@kytv> bye Mathiasdm!
21:03:28  <orion> Can we have the website be geti2p.net and have personal emails be directed to blah@i2p.io?
21:03:35  <orion> Like, press@i2p.io
21:04:11  <hottuna> i dont think we've ever hade personal email
21:04:22  <hottuna> not that it is a bad idea, it would be nice
21:04:29  <lillith> orion: why?
21:04:51  <hottuna> having them separated makes little sense in my mind
21:05:07  <iRelay> <user@kytv> I don't even know what .io stands for. input output?
21:05:11  <Meeh> personal email for active developers/contributors could be usefull
21:05:22  <Meeh> exceptly when it comes to PR etc
21:05:33  <lillith> i agree but surely meeh@geti2p.net
21:05:36  <Meeh> postman's service is nice... but great with imap and stuff
21:05:55  <lillith> a site with different email screams out scam to me
21:06:06  <suhr> i2p.io is nice, but we've got i2pmail.org...
21:06:23  <inscrutus> kytv: yeah input/output
21:06:30  <asdfsdafsdafsd> haha my thoughts too user....
21:06:41  <lillith> suhr: it's not official. i agree there should be official emails for devs etc though
21:06:59  <unresolved> i2pmail ? :/
21:07:06  <unresolved> is that really a good idea
21:07:13  <suhr> It should be avalibe in i2p.
21:07:23  <lillith> unresolved: it already exists
21:07:30  <Meeh> yea, but sure we can have two mail domains inside i2p
21:07:34  <unresolved> :/
21:07:37  <suhr> (www.i2p2.i2p is a terrible address, anyway)
21:07:40  <inscrutus> isn't i2pmail.org already the postman mail gateway?
21:08:03  <str4d> Back
21:08:16  <iRelay> <user@kytv> inscrutus, it is
21:08:24  <hottuna> Do we have any other voters?
21:08:39  <asdfsdafsdafsd> so jrandom took i2p.i2p too when he went awol?
21:09:04  <lillith> str4d: the meeting was handed over to you :)
21:09:30  <str4d> K. I have to depart in the next ten mins anyway, so I'll be brief:
21:10:10  <str4d> The website is ready for transition (or at least, as ready as I can see)
21:10:30  <str4d> Translations are underway.
21:10:41  <lillith> str4d: how is the mobile site?
21:10:45  <str4d> The structure, urls etc. is set.
21:10:54  <str4d> lillith: I *haven't* worked on that, no.
21:11:05  <str4d> It's better than the current site, but the menu CSS still needs work.
21:11:44  <str4d> As does the desktop CSS
21:12:02  <str4d> So designers are more than welcome to get stuck in.
21:12:09  <str4d> But we decided previously that the theme is not a blocker.
21:12:46  <str4d> Currently, the redirects from the old URLs to the new ones (e.g. /how_threatmodel.html -> /en/docs/how/threat-model) are done with 302 redirects.
21:13:20  <hottuna> Ok
21:13:20  <str4d> I'm going to leave them like that until the site is live, so the URL redirects can be properly tested
21:13:27  <str4d> (But switching to a 301 is a simple addition of a parameter)
21:13:31  <hottuna> Have you heard anytinhg from echelon or weltende about deploying the site?
21:13:49  <str4d> weltende has said no website work before March
21:14:15  <str4d> (He said 2 weeks last week, but earlier in the meeting he said 1/3 which I assume means March)
21:15:33  <str4d> So there is still time for design work, more translations, and any other suggestions
21:15:36  <hottuna> ok
21:15:54  <Meeh> maybe a bit late, but I got a topic for the meeting.. we now got mailing list... should we start using them?
21:16:05  <Meeh> I've done setup the server at lists.i2p2.de
21:16:15  <hottuna> dg, are you back?
21:16:42  <hottuna> we've had no new
21:16:49  <hottuna> votes
21:16:56  <hottuna> wait, thats not true
21:16:59  <hottuna> geti2p.net - 9 - hottuna, dg, inscrutus, zzz, asdfsdafsdafsd, Shinobiwan, str4d, unresolved, meeh, user
21:17:09  <zzz> I dont know what 1/3 meant. But w/o him agreeing and doing the work for the site, or a new domain, or anything else we have nothing.
21:17:28  <hottuna> i2p-projekt.de - 1 - lillith
21:18:03  <Meeh> another question, who got access to geti2p.net, and what if that person goes awol?
21:18:09  <inscrutus> zzz: is it possible for others to pitch in to lessen the load on weltende?
21:18:27  <Meeh> witch load?
21:18:46  <zzz> dont know
21:18:56  <hottuna> Meeh, welterde/weltende
21:18:59  <lillith> Meeh: are we leaving the mailing list topic to the end?
21:19:06  <dg> I'm back.
21:19:14  <hottuna> how does shared dns-ownership work?
21:19:25  <hottuna> maybe shared access to a registrar account?
21:19:35  <iRelay> <user@kytv> Meeh: is this lists.i2p2.de reachable from withing i2p?
21:19:55  <dg> Not yet.
21:20:09  <iRelay> <weltende@freenode> can give you access to the relevant VM
21:20:38  <Meeh> lillith: we can leave it to the end yes.
21:20:52  <dg> So, website
21:21:03  <dg> Are we waiting on welt to be able to help us deploy?
21:21:20  <hottuna> I think we are
21:21:39  <Meeh> weltende, I can ssh into it and portforward the console and fix it if you want?
21:21:58  * dg nods
21:22:13  <hottuna> but we've reached a decision?
21:22:28  <dg> yes, geti2p.net
21:22:35  <dg> that is the majority
21:23:46  <iRelay> <weltende@freenode> Meeh: hmm? fix what?
21:24:25  <str4d> Last point about the website revamp - http://vekw35szhzysfq7cwsly37coegsnb4rrsggy5k4wtasa6c34gy5a.b32.i2p/ has the latest, suggestions welcome.
21:24:36  <iRelay> Title: I2P Anonymous Network (at vekw35szhzysfq7cwsly37coegsnb4rrsggy5k4wtasa6c34gy5a.b32.i2p)
21:24:36  <Meeh> tunnel, lists.i2p2.i2p or whatever
21:24:36  <Meeh> since it's not inside i2p yet
21:26:12  <inscrutus> str4d: very nice
21:26:33  <iRelay> <user@kytv> looks pretty good, str4d
21:27:02  <str4d> Thanks =)
21:27:20  <str4d> Post any suggestions in ticket #807
21:27:24  * str4d is off now o/
21:27:26  <iRelay> <weltende@freenode> Meeh: ah.. good point
21:27:26  <dg> o/
21:27:29  <dg> So, IPv6?
21:27:32  <iRelay> http://trac.i2p2.i2p/ticket/807 - (accepted enhancement) - Revamp of website
21:27:35  <SkinSyste> thats awesome, should make the i22p.de homepage
21:28:06  <asdfsdafsdafsd> I like the color scheme str4d...
21:28:35  <asdfsdafsdafsd> are we doing away with the light or dark color scheme?
21:28:53  <inscrutus> dg: Is there an IPv6 + i2p summary I could read up on?
21:29:15  <dg> inscrutus: Yeah, hang on.
21:29:22  <Meeh> there is a IPv6 topic or two on zzz.i2p
21:29:37  <dg> http://zzz.i2p/topics/109 http://zzz.i2p/topics/594
21:29:37  <hottuna> inscrutus, http://zzz.i2p/topics/109
21:29:52  <iRelay> Title: zzz.i2p: I2P vs. IPv6: A bad joke (at zzz.i2p)
21:29:56  <iRelay> Title: zzz.i2p: IPV6 TODO (at zzz.i2p)
21:31:30  <suhr> How to get to "How does I2P work" page on that site?
21:31:33  <suhr> Menu isn't clickable.
21:32:15  <suhr> Ah, that's "Documentation index"
21:33:19  <suhr> It's a bit unintuitive.
21:34:01  <dg> Hm. That's for str4d for a ticket.
21:34:04  <dg> *or
21:34:16  <dg> IPv6..
21:34:34  <dg> welt was the last (only?) dev to work on IPv6 + I2P
21:34:46  <dg> I don't know if anyone is willing to take it up aside from zzz (and he needs a box, ssh thru i2p in that case)
21:34:53  <dg> hottuna? Meeh?
21:34:55  <Meeh> yea, is someone interesting in a ipv6 hackfest?
21:35:13  <Meeh> I provide server
21:35:13  <hottuna> A hackfest seems like a nice idea
21:35:20  <Meeh> and help testing on other locations as well
21:35:46  <zzz> no, this is not time for a hackfest. We need an analysisfest and a decisionfest.
21:36:05  <Meeh> ok, well, do you want to lead that zzz?
21:36:27  <Meeh> and do you want a ssh account to a ipv6 server you can play with?
21:38:18  <zzz> yes to both. however probably not before April.
21:39:14  <Meeh> ok, why not before April?
21:39:21  <Meeh> and
21:39:40  <Meeh> how do we analyse what's needed to be analyzed?
21:39:55  <Meeh> IMO we should get i2p on ipv6 asap
21:40:21  <zzz> I'm probably about to lose a whole bunch of time but I have nothing more to say about it yet.
21:40:32  <Meeh> ah ok
21:40:44  <dg> hopefully won't be the case but :(
21:41:09  <zzz> for analysis, read and understand every work in thread 109 and then keep going and come up with a recommendation and reasoning
21:42:42  <zzz> s/work/word/
21:42:45  <iRelay> zzz meant: for analysis, read and understand every word in thread 109 and then keep going and come up with a recommendation and reasoning
21:42:56  <Meeh> I support your option #3, from my limited experience with ipv6
21:43:10  <Meeh> and I've read the thread
21:43:25  <zzz> it's mostly about how what change fits best into our code, not about ipv6 itself.
21:44:16  <zzz> it could also be about how to do NTCP/SSU with pigeons.
21:45:37  <suhr> Is there a big difference between ipv4 and ipv6 in java?
21:48:13  * suhr don't know I2P code.
21:52:54  <christoph4> I doubt the problem is the direct networking code
21:52:54  <zzz> no
21:53:28  <zzz> it's really a datastructure issue.
21:54:32  <christoph4> + there might be some fun with privacy extension and multiple valid addresses adround where you want to switch from time to time. And how you do a "one node per /16" on IPv6 address space
21:54:43  <zzz> do you want to organize by hi-level protocol NTCP/SSU, or low-level IPv4/v6, or both or neither
21:56:12  <zzz> right. the various places where we assume v4 all have to be fixed too, but that's just grunt work
21:57:07  <inscrutus> grunt work would be good for new devs to help get familiar with the code
21:57:10  <zzz> dg are we done I hope?
21:57:21  <dg> yeah
21:57:28  <dg> we've got nobody else
21:57:31  <dg> so.. yeah.
21:57:38  <hottuna> alright!
21:57:38  * zzz hands dg the *baffer
21:57:53  <dg> I'll cut down on what we have per-meeting next time, or maybe more poking? ;-)
21:57:56  * dg takes
21:57:56  <lillith> dg: so are crypto and mailing list rolling over to next week?
21:57:59  * dg *baf*s the meeting closed
21:58:02  <dg> lillith: Yup.
21:58:17  <hottuna> alright, you've managed to get us all to decide on a new domain
21:58:20  <hottuna> not bad at all :)
21:58:40  <dg> :)
21:58:51  <lillith> hottuna: it was a fairly unanimous decision ;)
21:59:08  <hottuna> getting us to make is the hard part
21:59:23  <inscrutus> dg: i think it's reasonable to not wait as long for stragglers
21:59:51  <lillith> inscrutus: or start earlier for stragglers
22:00:06  <lillith> ie start poking from half 7 ish
22:00:29  <inscrutus> lillith: that too
22:00:33  <dg> Perhaps trivial, non dev topics should be erlier
22:00:44  <dg> (Mailing list for example)
22:01:26  <inscrutus> dg: a good idea so to not scare off the non-devs :)
22:01:29  <dg> I need to know good times for zzz .. and whoever the other crypto/ipv6 guys are. Most of us can't contribute to discussion at all.
22:04:44  <zzz> dg, I don't know when the good times are either. str4d and tuna seemed to be making a little progress.
22:07:47  <zzz> dg I'm guessing 6-12 months will be required to come up with a solid plan.
22:08:13  <dg> zzz: That's resonable. Better late than never, and I'd rather us be planning than nothing at all.
22:09:25  <zzz> it's been on the list for years already. pushing more might help or might not.